I noticed there is now a 150 item limit per project.
Is don't like that.
Now I can't use Todoist for my weekly crocery shopping anymore.
Is this limit constraint permanent?
some limitations such as 80 projects per account might be extended in the future, however a complete lift of these limits is unfortunately unlikely.
Due to some technical limitations and issues, especially with mobile apps, an unlimited amount of tasks would be impossible to implement. The target limitations that we're planning to keep for Premium accounts will allow you to have a total of 22,500 tasks on your account (spread over 150 projects).
Note - this only affects active items, you can archive projects or move tasks to history and they won't count towards the total.
We're sorry for any inconvenience it might have caused you. For now, please try to spread your tasks into 2 projects (sub-projects?).
I also find the 150 item limit very problematic --- ToDoist is much less useful to me with this restriction. Two suggestions:
- Instead of having a limit on the number of items, you could have a limit on the number of items displayed and require people to click "next page" or some such to see another block of items in a big project. This would work fine for me and (I am guessing) address the performance concerns.
- If you must have a limit, please set it higher. 250 or 300 can only work for more people than 150.
the current limitation allows you to have 12,000 active tasks (150 tasks in 80 projects). We will extend it in the future, however some limitations are unfortunately necessary.
Please note that you can create sub-projects on 3 indent levels and archived items (archived project and completed tasks) do not count towards the limitation.
So, are you saying sub-projects indented do not count towards 80 project total? Please advise.
sub-projects also count towards the limit. Only archived projects don't.
There are 2 limitations: 80 projects on an account and 150 tasks within a project. If you have too many tasks in one project, you can split them into other projects or sub-projects. If you have too many projects with a few task, you can move them to one project.
-1 and a big thumbs down for the new 150 task limit!
This really messes up my projects.
Can you increase this limit for premium users? - should be more like 500-1000.
Can't see any technical reason why this is necessary. I can understand the objection for "unlimited tasks" or for people abusing the system (surely only a handful at most), but there really isn't any valid technical reason for the 150 limit, other than to reduce bandwidth costs. For premium users this cannot be justified as we're paying for it!
Please advise when this decision wil be reversed or the limit increased for premium users.
we are planning to extend the maximum limit for Premium Customers, however, it will most likely be the limit of projects and not tasks.
Currently, you can add 150 tasks, but in a total of 80 projects. Which means, you can have a total of 12 000 active tasks at a time. Note - archived projects or completed tasks do not count towards the total. If we raise the limit to 150 projects, you'll be able to have 22 500 active tasks.
Just as you create sub-tasks, it's possible to create sub-projects on Todoist. If your task structure in a project exceeds the 150 task limit, you can create sub-projects for the "main" parent tasks.
There are 2 technical reasons for these limitations:
1. Your tasks are stored offline in your browser's offline cache which allows you to access them offline. This cache, however, has a limitation of 5 MB and we have to add some of the Todoist application data to it as well to allow offline access for our site.
2. Very long task lists as well as total task counts above 25 000 tasks can greatly influence the performance of Todoist mobile apps and since we'd like to provide fast, accessible apps in the future, handling so many tasks would greatly complicate many things and may even make it impossible to access your projects via mobile.
Hi David and thanks for the prompt and informative response.
As a compromise, would it be possible for users to set their own limits in order to keep under the 12 000 task threshold?
ie - We are currently locked-in to an arbitrary figure of 150 tasks/ 80 projects.
However, I personally need about 5-10 projects to have much more than 150 tasks, whereas most of my projects only have about 10 or less tasks.
So, I should be able to choose how many tasks per project, so long as the total is under 12,000. This way, the cache will not be affected nor will the mobile app.
I understand that it will be more difficult to implement this, rather than an arbitrary limit for all tasks, but it should definitely be an option for advanced/ premium users. Maybe an advanced setting where the user can chose between a task limit of 150 and, say 1000. If the user chooses 1000 for an individual project, then the total number of projects allowed decreases.
In fact, the easiest solution would be a simple graphic at the bottom of the screen, saying "You are using xx% of your 12,500 task limit", much like at the bottom of the gmail screen. That way, users can have any number of projects and tasks per individual project, with the knowledge that there is a total limit they must stay under.
I think this needs to be implemented in some way - the current limit is so restrictive upon the way I use Todoist, that I am already looking at alternatives, despite around 3 yrs of loyalty and premium use.
Personally I'd rather go without offline use/ mobile app just to have the old functionality back - perhaps you can implement "Original Todoist" in parallel, without offline/mobile for us power-users...
I am also surprised that such a drastic change would be implemented without warning or consultation - a bit disappointing.
Please implement a work-around - this really is a big step backwards!
we're very sorry for any inconvenience caused by this limitation. We've chosen this particular number based on the usage statistics of our software by all users and only very few customers exceed either of these limits.
If you have many projects with less than 10 tasks, you can group them, create parent tasks instead of new projects which will allow you to stay below the 80 project limit. On the other hand, projects with more than 150 tasks can be split into sub-projects.
We may consider changing the numbers in the future and we would appreciate if you could let us know what issues you're experiencing through this limitation so we can understand how you use Todoist. In other words - what type of list/tasks exceed the 150 limit which could not be split into sub-projects (a list of more than 150 sub-tasks on 1 level or parent-tasks only)?
I want to second the suggestion to have a total 12,000 task cap and allow at least premium users to distribute the tasks as they see fit.
In response to the request for information on task lists that exceed 150 items, I use ToDoist to simply keep track of things I need to do, both now and far into the future. I fine it extremely useful to have a single list that shows me what I have to do today, tomorrow, next week, next month. studying this list helps me plan my life. Breaking it into arbitrary sub-projects is not helpful and costs me significant time going through multiple lists. Like a previous poster, I am a long-term and premium user who is now considering alternatives. I also regard this change as a big step backwards and would really appreciate it if some workaround could be provided.
thank you for your explanation. Please note that you can have one to-do list for the next days even if you split it into projects. When you go to the "7 days" view, all tasks from all projects will be presented as a schedule for the next days.
Still, we may consider changing this limitations and you're welcome to add your vote for this request in our Votebox: http://todoist.com/Vote/showProposal/451/
I am long time premium and loyal user of Todoist . I use it on a daily basis and love it. However, this new size limitations make me think that for the very first time I may need to move on and look for something else. I find this to be unprofessional to impose such limitations both on in term of level of service (this is really a unpleasant surprise) and on the technical level - there are many ways one can resolve permanence issues with HTML5 and all the other available technologies.
You could potentially charge heavy users with higher monthly fees and give them a choice between paying more or restructuring their projects. But now, it looks like there are not so many other choices left.
I do hope that you will soon lift up these limitations before it get too late. At least for me.
we're sorry for any inconvenience these limitations might have caused you. Unfortunately, we won't be able to completely lift them as it would introduce many technical issues especially in the mobile apps.
Please note that any archived projects or completed tasks do not count towards the limits and you can currently have 12,000 active tasks on your account.
To help us understand how you're using Todoist and how do these limitation cause issues in the way you're using our service, we would be grateful if you could briefly explain an example of when this limit becomes a problem.
Thanks for your quick reply.
Here is my setup:
I have one inbox project + about 8 projects with 10-12 sub projects in each. The inbox project has about 300 items. I put there new items that room the wen that I need to relate to them later. (which now I can't anymore). It is also the one which I use forwarding stuff through email. Occasionally, I move item from my inbox to the other projects or just check them off.
So I tried to split my inbox into 2 projects, which is less convenient but may work for while as a workaround. Then I hit the limit of 80 projects. I could have try and merge sum sub projects but then this is the point of sub project meaning , not keeping everything under one long long flat list.
Also, I really don't feel like spend time reorganizing my projects just because all of a sudden some technical limitations has been hit. I just want to continue do things at the same way that I find them working for me.
BTW, from technical perspective, I believe that if you had used a true nested list architecture, you wouldn't have hit this limitation and also your HTML5 client would not have shown as a flat list of all the existing items, which by it self is a major usability issue.
I also find the limit highly frustrating and makes todoist much less useful the way I'm using it. I have spend quite some time comparing different todo list solutions and todoist came out as the clear winner, but it looks like the search has to start again.
I am using 'projects' as categories since my tasks are clearly dividable into separate groups of related tasks (e.g., education, work, volunteering, private, tinkering, Someday/Maybe). Each of them contains a hierarchy of tasks and allows for quick reviews without reviewing and clicking through many pages or 'projects'. For many of these categories, subdividing their tasks into separate pages would be unnatural. I also maintain checklists (as a general collection of lists) in a separate category.
Since the former use of todoist persuade me to step over to premium I would urge the developers to rethink this huge step backwards and at least increase the limit or only set a global task limit to allow for individual usage preferences. Otherwise, please let us know how we can reclaim the fee we paid for this otherwise great product.
we may consider changing the limitations, but to understand how you're using our app and what amount of tasks would be sufficient for you, could you please let us know how many tasks you usually have in 1 project?
I now count 165, 30, 297, 65, 42, 330, 230. I can imagine some projects would grow up to 500 tasks in busy weeks.
I agree. The limitations is the worst thing happening to todoist and my way of managing lists.
Also I am not using todoist mobile so don´t think that´s an valid argument.
Useless. for two months, have hung on hoping you guys would fix the 80 project limit (or at least increase it to something reasonably useful like 150 / 200 or so), since at its core you have a very usable program--but these limitations kill it. And vague responses is all we get to inquiries. I give up. Migrating to Evernote, which has no project limits.
Have to agree with the sentiment on here - there was no notice of a limit and 80 project limit has stopped me switching to premium AND recommending it to all of my clients. Your loss guys!
I was using Todoist to manage clients - each client had a project folder and then tasks were grouped in there. Each client folder had their annual billing reminder and I could add tasks as they came up.
Most clients require a job to be completed each month so archiving / unarchiving would be a nightmare!
I have over 80 clients so a) I cannot add more clients on and b) there is no way I can now add in-house projects.
As for the mobile reason, you don't do an app and judging by the feedback on here it looks like you most would prefer you to get the core part of it right first - the web based version.
For my shopping list I have the main project "Tom Thumb" ie for food items I currently need to buy and sub lists Tom Thumb (Save) for food items I regularly need but am not buying today, Tom Thumb (Cleaning), Tom Thumb (Drug Items),Tom Thumb (Toiletries),Tom Thumb (Pet), and Tom Thumb (Laundry).
I do the same for Walmart. I have separate list for Home Depot/ Lowes and others. For each Doctor (4) by name I have for a list of questions to ask on my next visit. I do not have 80 projects though, and hope I never have to, but I do have about 40.
For the heads-up about sub-projects. When a project is created, after the save, can you please add a pop-up about sub-project capability.
Also can you make it so a holding a mouse button down on a project will allow moving the project left or right to perform the indentation without having to edit the project (but still leave it in the edit window).
Also can you make the web standard version like the web mobile version to allow for drop down lists to move tasks between projects so we can have the same experience on my pc as I do on my droid and visa versa?
Also the ability to get more of the standard site options in the mobile version, such as support and help faq. especially as the mobile version it completely new and unfamiliar.
Great improvements is both sites, but we need more similarities rather than completely different UI.
I know this overlaps topics, but I took a shortcut. Sorry.
I am not a premium user because I cannot afford the cost and must make due with the free version, though you deserve and i would buy the premium features.
I love not having to use the 3rd party Droid App, but your mobile version needs broadening. Maybe an app would be a better solution, but having the ability to use this mobile web version is great, too.
I have been a alpha/beta tester for many projects in the past and for one for many years (cannot say name due to confidentiality), but I can give more details about my experiences in a private email. I would really enjoy working with you to improve the user experience and development process. No pay is required.
thank you for your feedback, we appreciate it.
We will soon most likely add a short tutorial guide for new Customers to showcase the most important features of Todoist which would also cover creating sub-tasks or sub-projects.
You can easily indent a task or a project using the drag & drop option. Simply hover over a task or project to see the handle icon appear on its left side, click and hold it down with the left mouse button and while holding it, use the number keys: 1, 2, 3 or 4 to change its indent level. If you release the project or task, it will be indented.
You can also drag & drop tasks to other projects using the same method. Click on a task's handle and drag & drop it to a different project.
As for the mobile version - we're launching our official Android and iOS app this month and it will not only offer a great new UI with an introductional tutorial/help for first-time users, but also many features from the web-app - task notes, quick postpone, labels, custom filters etc. Also, a new feature - push-notifications - if a task has an SMS reminder and you're logged into the Todoist for Android app, your phone will ring or vibrate to notify you about the upcoming event. You can take a look at the first screenshots from the new app in this post: https://plus.google.com/b/106827182652048588353/106827182652048588353/posts/Hh9u8Sg7xnh
That's all great!
But let's get back to the subject of this thread. We would like to get clarity on whether the low limits will be changed soon or not. If not, I'll start migrating to another service soon and will advice others to do the same.
Considering the fact that todoist developers think a limit is inevitable, to me the slider option to choose between low project-limit and low tasks-per-project-limit seems to be the most feasible solution. Please don't kill this wonderful product by setting hard restrictions and thereby limiting users' abilities to adapt Todoist to their own working style.
it was a tough decision for us to add these limitations, but considering the vast improvement of performance and the very small amount of users that have ever exceeded the limit of 150 tasks or 80 projects in the past, we've decided to improve the performance for everyone.
We may of course consider raising the project amount limit for Premium Customers in the future, but we will most likely not lift it completely.
We're sorry for any inconvenience it might have caused you and hope that you can find a workaround to organize your tasks with this limitation as it allows you to have 12,000 active tasks on your account and also please note that it only affect active tasks. You can have an unlimited amount of completed tasks stored in any project and an unlimited amount of archived projects (which can always be accessed and unarchived).
How about an opt-out button that individuals can use to override this? If there are only a few of us affected by this it seems that should not impact overall performance.
You can vote on the suggestion to have an option to opt-out from this limitation here: http://todoist.com/Vote/showProposal/657/
You can use the iOS app to add tasks past the 150 count. I've got one project called "To read" where I collect links to articles that I don't have time to read at the moment. It has 196 tasks and it just takes a second longer to open it on the mobile the first time, but I've experience no issues otherwise.
But I'm sure this will be "fixed" in a future version. And I'll have to decide if I want to keep using it.
I think -- with all due respect to the staff -- that looking at who did and did not go past the 80/150 limits a year ago, including non-premium users, may not be the best way to assess needs and markets. As I mentioned in the voting area, for example, this is a potentially great product for lawyers who practice alone as opposed to in firms (I'm one of them). We don't need expensive client management software, but we desperately need reliable todo list software that can be accessed on I-Devices and Android phones as well as on the desktop, affordably. (And for us, affordably would probably mean more what this costs now., considering the cost of the other options) To find exactly what I've been looking for and then find this limit that will mean I will hit a brick wall soon is maddening, and kills a great potential market to which I was ready to make recommendations to my peers. (And projects is the only way to sensibly handle clients.... we need to be able to see what client a task goes to on the fly, and that's the project name to the lower right of the task in the desktop and mobile views.) I have to think there would be some way to override the hard limit and still restrict the amount of data in total that would be stored (hence addressing the browser cache issue).
We're sorry to hear that. If you treat each client as a project, but don't have many tasks in each project, please consider using labels to identify clients. This way, you could have projects associated not with clients, but with certain steps that need to be taken for each client while the client would be represented by the label/tag assigned to each task.
There is no limitation to how many labels you can have and you could include label names in the search box and custom filters.
That actually might be an option... though a bit differently than you suggest. What we do does not typically go by type of task, but it is possible to use the project for the letter of the alphabet the client's name begins with, then use labels for the client name (e.g. project S, label smith-john; commas don't work; we are very last name focused). I'll play with that and see how it flies in practice.
This is insane. You are asking your users to adjust how they run their lives to suit the convenience of how you want to make the code work. The tool is supposed to exist to server the user, not the user to serve the tool.
If you truly believe your users can easily carve up/consolidate their tasks into <80 neat, homogenous buckets of <150 tasks each, then why can you just do that yourselves under the covers and make it invisible to us, instead?
To justify it as "few folks are doing it now" both is self-fulling (of course no one is making projects with more than 150 tasks -- they can't!) and is a good way to ensure you do not grow your customer base to include those who would.
A firm that believes its customers exit to help it, instead of that it exists to help its customers, is unlikely to be a sustainable business for long.
Just to be clear, I, and I suspect most others, are not complaining about the limit of ~20K tasks total. We understand that space can be limited in browsers and mobile devices. It is you insistence that WE take responsibility for carving it up into a small number of buckets of a size that you find convenient that is so absurd. Some people want lots of projects with a small number of tasks, others a few projects with a large number of tasks, and yet others some of each. That you insist we all have to use a medium number of medium sized buckets is absurd.
While I would (and did) put it differently, I agree with two of Don's points: (1) I fully understand the cap in total tasks being essential in light of the memory constraints; and (2) the limit to 80 projects/150 tasks does definitely limit the usability of the app in substantial potential markets for the app, mine being only one of those. If there is a programming reason that the limits on projects and tasks per project can't be lifted with the total tasks cap remaining in force, I would certainly understand that (I programmed back in the BASIC/Fortran days), but absent that I am not seeing the reason for the limitation.
As said above, the limitation is for performance. We do hope that we can change this in the future but as of now we can't, and performance is a big concern.
There are a few reasons behind this but one being that when you access Todoist you are viewing a Project most of the time. If that project has more then 150 tasks, it slows things down (picture many users doing it at the same time). If you have a bunch of projects with that many tasks, then on the Today view & 7 Days view, it will be slowed down as well.
We understand this is something that needs to be improved, and we hope we can in the near future (if only for Premium).
In Brendan's prompt and polite reply he stated "when you access Todoist you are viewing a Project most of the time."
I'm sorry, but this is NOT true. I am almost always interested in cuts through the data based on dates and labels. I rarely have any interest in seeing things by project, and most of the occasions when I do so, or more accurately, would do so, it is simply because your UI encourages me to.
I don't doubt that the Todoist developers do view a project most of the time. But remember the mantra of many HCI professionals, which applies doubly to software developers: "The user is NOT like me."
Your potential customers come in all sorts of different shapes and sizes, with different goals, and different ways in which they want to work. Undoubtedly many of your current customers, like you, also view a project most of the time; since you are currently encouraging those that work in that style to stay, but discouraging those who do not, it is almost guaranteed that over time it will be the majority of your customers. But in the long run, you will have lost far more than you've kept by being unwilling to support multiple styles of work, and insisting you know better than your customers how they should do their own work.
To give you a frame of reference of one customer that works differently that you expect, here's what my life looks like:
I have a bunch of things I have to do. Every time I discover a new one, I jot it down in a piece of software (not currently Todoist, though I've been seriously exploring moving to it, as it has many other things I value, that my current tool lacks). They do not fall into neat little buckets. I do not want to categorize them into some tidy taxonomy. Not when I enter them. Not ever. I may give them dates. I may make them recur in various ways. I usually tag them with various things that help me decide which ones are relevant for what my opportunities for working on them are. And for keeping track of how I'm doing against various goals. I'm currently up to about 1,800 things, ranging from minuscule to huge; from once only someday, to quotidian, to even March 18th every ten years.
None of these tags I have used form a partition into discrete bins such that every task is in exactly one bin. In the process of seeing if I can move to Todoist I've explored a bunch of project hierarchies I might put them into. Every one I've tried, I've (a) quickly run into cases with really big projects and squinty little projects so things don't balance; yes, I can arbitrarily break the big projects into sub-projects, but this both unnatural, and exacerbates (b) that I quickly discover tasks that really want to be in two or more of the projects I've hypothesized. In truth, for my style of working I've seriously considered throwing up my hands and just making Project 1, Project 2, ... Project 80, and simply slotting tasks into them at random!
By all means, for those of your users who like breaking their life into discrete, non-overlapping, medium sized projects support them. But don't fool yourselves into thinking everyone is like that. We're not.
Anyway, thank you for your clearly articulated response. Since you say "If you have a bunch of projects with that many tasks, then on the Today view & 7 Days view, it will be slowed down as well" I guess that means even if I were to find some project hierarchy that worked for me, I'd discover I was hosed as soon as I'd gone to all the work of getting all my tasks into your system. I really do appreciate you telling me up front, before I'd wasted all that effort, that Todoist won't work for me.
Thank you for that response.
I of course did not mean to state that everyone uses Projects as there main view. As myself, I spend most of the time on the Today view. My point was that a large majority do access it through that, but even then it does not matter, because your tasks no matter where they are, show up in different locations (today, custom queries etc). It was suppose to be an example :)
And we do know everyone uses it differently, and the problem is that everyone affects everyone. For example, if one person is trying to update/change/add 1000+ tasks at one time, it's possible for this one person to slow down the access to everyone else. We are growing all the time, and are upgrading as needed when we can.
These are rare but possible. We are always looking to improve things like this, but as I said, right now we have to take what we can and concentrate on the best way to have the best performance. We are sorry, and we do know this is causing problems for some users, which is why we do hope we can change this in the near future.
I have a suggestion... without mentioning an alternative type app out there, its one of the features you might be able to emplement that (could possibly?) resolve the limitation issue, or strech out the limitation, if you will.
In working with Flow Charts/Mind Mapping, tailoring information in logical form is a must in order to gain a clean perspective of what your looking to accomplish in your layout, or in this case, Projects & Tasks.
Brendon, what if your were to add a List feature to an account? Essentially, your creating a higher-tear in which to categorize Project/Tasks into. In an example, the user could create a list that would help breakdown (or better organize?) the Projects.
In one of the responders posts in this thread, Groceries were being filled to the max. Perhaps if a top tear were available, then seperate Grocery Lists could be created, thus extending out the availability of space.
I'll shoot you a seperate email of my input.
Todoist allows 3 indent levels of both tasks and projects so it's already possible to create a "top tier" project, add sub-projects to it, even sub-sub project to these sub-projects and each of them can have its own 150 tasks in it and at the same time show the hierarchy of the projects.
Brendon Wadey STAFF
Replied on Jul 11, 2013 - 18:55
"We do hope that we can change this in the future but as of now we can't, and performance is a big concern."
Any update if this limitation can be removed?
There are no updates to this at this time. Sorry for the trouble.
I'm glad I stumbled onto this before spending too much time getting my work and personal life set up on Todoist.
I am an attorney. The natural way for most attorneys to work is to have clients set up as projects, and different aspects of each client project divided into sub projects. Thus, while "Meet with Clients" is a task under the main project, "Draft Documents" with a list of tasks for each document, is separate from Review and Finalize Documents".
Right there, I'm limited to 25 active estate planning clients if each has 3 sub projects. That is, assuming I have at least 5 personal projects.
I tried using nested tasks, but Todoist does not implement that well at all. Parent tasks show up right alongside the nested tasks, giving me an inflated and out of context view of what needs to be done at any one time.
I am seldom going to have 150 tasks in any one project. I don't even have that many items in any one grocery list. However, I do have more than 80 active clients at one time, and need a meaningful way to make use of the template function.
My templates currently have all the sub projects and tasks associated with each type of job. So, one template for Incorporation, one for Probate, one for Estate Planning, and so on. Probate is divided into Petition, Administration, and Final Account sub projects. If I try your labeling idea, then I've got to individually label every task each time I import a project, not to mention pawing through more labels than you could count. Never mind the fact that task nesting doesn't really function, visually or logically.
I was preparing to be a Todoist evangelist, but now I am rethinking my situation and what tools will really work for me.
We're sorry to hear that. It seems that tasks and sub-tasks would be the perfect solution for you. Please clarify - what issue are you experiencing with their display?
If instead of sub-projects, you would create a parent task for each sub-project, entering the client's project would clearly show you the entire task and sub-task tree so you would know what needs to be done and what's part of which task. In fact, you could also collapse a certain parent task if you don't want to see its sub-tasks and focus on something else.
Please let us know what the issue with sub-tasks is, it would help us understand the problem. You're also welcome to send us a screenshot showing the issue to email@example.com
After reaching my 150 tasks inbox limit today, I found this thread to see what kind of discussion was going on regarding this issue.
At first, I didn't like the limitation because it seemed to be such an inconceivable annoyance. However, it forced me to look at the much older tasks in my inbox (which I've all but forgotten) and I ended cleaning up a bunch of items or reworking them into my list.
While I didn't like the limit, it does force some discipline on what would otherwise have become an unwieldy list, which is a problem I think many of us can relate to.
Just my 2 cents.
Is there a plan to expand the number of project and task in future Business versions of Todoist? I think by early next year I might be pushing the Todoist envelope. :-!
Please note that 200 item limit is per project. All in all, you can add as much as 200 projects x 200 items which should give you 40,000 to do lists. One solution you can do, if you reach the maximum, is to break it down to sub-projects.
On our part, we'll look into increasing the limit as soon as it's possible to do so. The limit is mainly to make sure that the app performs well. :-)
If the answer is "No" or "Currently not", you might as well just say that :-)
IMHO marketing speech as answer on a specific question doesn't help anyone :-)
Thanks Clyde. I would opt for performance over size (sometimes size doesn't matter) all day long. (+1)